Notes for Chat with Traders, Episode 109

Added on by C. Maoxian.

Episode 110 ... Edward Thorp (65:15)

  • Ham radio license at age 13
  • Fascinated with all things science at age 10, 11
  • Born in 1932
  • Sold Kool-aid to WPA workers, turned 5 cents into 6 cents
  • Early reader, loved books
  • Started talking in full sentences
  • Precocious youth
  • Learned how to make gunpowder from encyclopedia
  • Parents worked in War Industry, kids weren't supervised, family very poor
  • Delivered newspapers, bought chemicals from corner druggist
  • Won scholarships to fund education
  • Studied chemistry at UCLA
  • Switched to physics, working on PhD
  • Switched to math, got his PhD in two years instead
  • Got job at MIT teaching, spent two years there
  • Wife hated Boston winters, moved to New Mexico, then UC Irvine
  • Independent thinker
  • Interested in whether roulette wheels could be gamed
  • Found out people playing blackjack and running games didn't understand what they were doing
  • MIT had an IBM 704 computer
  • Taught himself Fortran 2, early 1960, test his card counting ideas
  • Saw how to beat blackjack in multiple ways from computer results
  • Saw blackjack as a math problem
  • Bet big when you have an edge, bet small when you don't
  • Everyone thought he was a crank
  • Casinos said they'd send a cab for him
  • Manny Kimmel wanted to bankroll Thorp
  • Kimmel owned parking lots in NYC
  • Didn't know Kimmel was mob-connected
  • Kimmel an experienced gambler
  • Doubled $10,000 bankroll on their first trip to Vegas
  • Thorp more interested in academics than gambling
  • Casinos continued to scoff, so he decided to write a book about it
  • April Fool's Day 1964, changing the rules of blackjack, no doubling down , no pair splitting
  • Eventually rescinded those rules
  • Still are people who make a living counting cards
  • Thorp never interested in money, liked to be around smart people who knew a lot
  • Thorp not a conventional guy, unique thinker, Depression-era type of man [vanishing bunch, alas]
  • People steal your ideas so he published quickly
  • Claude Shannon sponsored his paper for National Academy
  • Claude Shannon was a gadgeteer ... wanted to help build wearable computer to beat roulette
  • 1950s terrible in casinos, 1960s awful, same in 1970s -- mafia violence
  • Casinos improved in 1980s when they went corporate
  • Played baccarat, won regularly, they drugged his drinks
  • Also tampered with his car so accelerator stuck -- apparently tried to kill him off
  • Casino owners hated Thorp and card counters in general, wanted to kneecap him
  • Money made from gambling and book sales, tried to invest it, but didn't do well
  • Studied investing all summer 1964
  • Discovered warrants in 1965 
  • Figured out how to price warrants, buy warrant and short stock, or buy stock and sell warrant
  • Wrote a book about his warrant findings called Beat the Market
  • Beat the Market inspired Black and Scholes, pricing uncertain payoffs
  • 1973 Black Scholes paper on options pricing, Thorp says he had exact formula years earlier
  • CBOE opened in early 1970s, options finally tradeable on an exchange
  • Playing poker or blackjack great training for investors or traders
  • "An edge" -- winning money at a fairly predictable rate
  • "Mathematical Expectation"
  • Managing your bankroll -- gambling is the master teacher
  • Kelly Criterion -- maximizing expected growth
  • Play 100 hands an hour, for 100 hours, that's 10,000 hands -- a lot of bets
  • "Maximum Expected Return"
  • KC a compromise between timid betting and overly aggressive betting
  • Find a situation where you have an edge, use Kelly Criterion to manage your bet size
  • Warren Buffett on one end of having an edge, HFT on the other end
  • Don't pursue money or success ... do what you love and enjoy, then money and success will follow
  • A Man for All Markets -- a memoir ... what's important in life
  • Don't just pile up money, enjoy the people you love